Guest blogger: Marc Wilson.
Marc Wilson first attracted our notice in 2003 when he quietly helped Rebecca complete her first (and only) NY Times crossword puzzle. Now, in addition to being a middle school teacher in Manhattan, he is little Harper’s dad. He’s a man who has never sold out for anything and is terrible at hypothetical games like “what would your dream (fill in the blank) be.” He always answers, “the job/car/house/wife/kids/superpowers I have.” Lucky for him, his super power happens to be impeccable taste.
About 7 years ago, I compiled a list of reasons I was not a man for a little startup independent newspaper at BYU (the Utah Valley Pulse). The list was exactly as follows here:
-I want to know which guys are hot as well as girls
-I don’t like to talk about cars
-I like softer music like Paul Simon and any oldies
-I randomly talk/obsess about members of the opposite sex
-I have my first two sons’ names completely figured out
-I take extra long showers
-I love cooking
-I get creative sometimes when I cook
-I like to be naked (only by myself)
-I hate 80s hard rock
-I’ve been to the opera and I loved it
-I’m an English major
-I cross my legs at the knee sometimes when I sit
-I consider myself a feminist
-I cry and sometimes I sob and blubber
-I write about members of the opposite sex I like in my journal
-I like to talk on the phone for hours
-lifting weights has no appeal to me
-I absolutely loved “The Cutting Edge”
-I write long letters to my friends and sign them with “love”
-I pass notes in class sometimes
-I eat fresh fruits and vegetables
-I can sing in octave with the Altos
-I can name at least five different shades of white without reflecting
-I cook for my roommates
-I barely eat meat
-I’m wild about a guy singing with his guitar
-I have no desire to go hunting
-I never wanted to be a police officer or a rockstar
-I speak French fluently, and I speak it with a higher-pitched lilting accent
-I hide my feelings sometimes but I’d rather be honest and talk about it
-I color-coordinate
-I plan my outfits, sometimes up to a week in advance
-I try on several outfits sometimes before deciding on the appropriate one
-I feel left out when there are baby/bridal showers
-I think babies are cute
-I use the word cute
-I’m flexible
-I have pictures of my friends in my scriptures
After the list I pontificated (at embarrassing length and self-importance) about gender and concluded with the following admonition:
I say, dare to be different. Defy your gender role and discover new talents and new qualities. Refuse to continue bad habits that are “manly” or “ladylike.” Embrace the positive qualities that are seen as typical of the opposite sex. Turn heads. Let people question your sexual orientation. Follow your own whims and desires. If you’re a woman, be a “man”; if you’re a man, be a “woman.”
Seven years have passed, and some of this has changed. I was surprised to find that many of my reasons no longer exist: I no longer envy bridal- and baby-shower-goers, I usually prefer to keep my phone conversations short, I’m not flexible (not sure I was then, either), and I can’t believe I ever liked the opera. I must be more “manly”—I even have little curlies on my chest to prove it.
My thoughts on gender have changed, too. Marriage has eliminated some of the gender/sexual tension inherent in dating and has even made me more interested in developing a more “manly” role. Having secured a spouse at that illustrious Mormon marriage mill, I no longer feel the need to assert myself in terms of gender. Learning about Sunny (said spouse) and how to get along with her seems much more important than defining my image to a broader group of peers. Having a daughter who (often in spite of our best efforts to the contrary) prefers pink, sparkly things, high heels, jewelry, and makeup (it pains me to write that one) has softened me and opened my eyes, and I’m learning to delight with her in these developmental fads. But I am also thrilled when Harper wields a hammer, insists on watching the garbage pick-up, kicks a ball, and wants to join in when I do my biannual chin-ups. I’m learning to let her choose and not dishearten when she does not choose to buck trends.
Although I would now back away from the bluster and provocation, I will stand by the message embedded in my rabble-rousing conclusion. Already I find that I’m not the only one exerting pressure on my daughter’s personality choices; she sees exemplars of femininity all around (and here in New York City in a sometimes frightening array) and probably already feels pressure to conform and to flout. I hope she’ll be strong enough to discover her own personality and form her own personal sense of gender. If you’re a man or a woman—just be yourself.
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July 10, 2009 at 9:02 am
Jared
Add “I guest blog on The Apron Stage” to your list.
It is often frightening to me the affect I will have on my daughter’s concepts of gender, self image and relationships. The almost 4 year old now makes a clear distinction between “pretty things” and “cool things” because I was once flippant in a conversation with her. Oops.
There is a fine line between (i) challenging the pre-packaged version of commercialized gender (especially for girls) that is constantly peddled by profiteers and (ii) doing more harm than good. My tactics are often more hands-on than is good. We will have smart and strong daughters (that will be roommates together at the BYU), thanks for the reminder to let them be.
July 10, 2009 at 10:18 am
No One You Know
I enjoyed your list.
I once made a list of why I’m not a real woman.
Not enjoying the movie, “The Notebook” was at the top.
Congratulations on your happy, healthy babies.
May it always be so.
July 10, 2009 at 10:24 am
wdt
I read about a study conducted in which they had mothers and their kindergarten age kids (girls and boys) go out onto the playground and play. Pretty soon they were all engaged in cooperative, communicative activities – sitting in circles, singing rhymes, clapping hands, etc. The researchers then had the fathers go out to the playground with the children. The activities changed to competitions (who can go higher on the swing), races, and throwing and kicking things.
I think that this sort of behavior is fairly predictable, and I guess I’m ok with people embracing their gender stereotypes. I think the problems is when a child doesn’t fit into one of those gender roles. It creates a lot of feelings of isolation, rejection, and unnecessary inner turmoil. As a very young boy (before I really even understood gender) I was much more interested in playing dress up and putting on make up, than tossing a ball or play fighting. Sure, I played with Star Wars action heros with my brothers, but I always wanted to be princess Laya. Doesn’t it seem much more acceptable for a girl to be a tomboy than for a boy to be a sissy? Why?
p.s. the other night my wife said to me, “Why didn’t I spend more time naked when I was single? I love it.” Turns out she’s never skinny dipped either – - so deprived.
July 10, 2009 at 10:40 am
Traci
Great post! I aways tell my children that whatever they choose to be make it interesting. For a long time I really struggled with the thought that if the end goal was righteousness then we would all turn out exactly the same in the end, the older I get the more I realize that that’s crap. We’re trying to be like Jesus, we’re not actually trying to be Jesus.
Our job as parents isn’t to make one more pod off the assembly line, pink pod for girls, blue pod for boys, because there are so many varied expressions of feminity and masculinity.
I also have another that if you haven’t added to you’re list you should -Project Runway. Seriously. Not manly but so, so good.
July 10, 2009 at 10:47 am
Traci
I just read wdt, that is totally true about tomboys/sissys. I’m trying my best right now to keep my son in touch with his sissyhood but his bossy sisters are beating it out of him. I just want to yell ” You’re untenderizing his heart you little vipers!”
Wow, I just read that last sentence. Yep, my future daughter in law is in big trouble.
July 10, 2009 at 11:01 am
robin
Inspite of my most dilegent attempts to mold my children, they have done what they wanted to do. Sometimes to my horror and often to my surprised delight.
My “Why I’m Not A Woman” list includes:
I don’t like to shop.
I love to play in dirt.
I never say “I don’t know, what to you want to do?”
July 10, 2009 at 11:06 am
Mehrsa
What’s funny is that at the same time you were making this list, I was trying to fight all of these things as a woman and just femeninty in general because I somehow got this notion that it was inferior. I professed to hate baby showers, chic flicks, cooking, and domesticity. It’s funny how marriage, children and life lets you just relax and just calmly sit in your gender the way you want it. I admit that I love chic flicks now and I would rather be at a baby shower or a book club than any sporting event or any other “manly” place. I think I just had to realize that these things are not inferior things to like. Tomboys are great, but who got to decide that it’s better for girls to like balls and guns than to like pink princess ponies?
July 10, 2009 at 11:14 am
Bridget
Great post. I appreciate when people can look back and reflect on what they once so ardently believed and see A) the flaws or B) the thought evolution.
I grew up latching on to the Tom Boy role because… I’m not sure. I admired professional athletes? Couldn’t stand girls who cried? Either way, when I longed to play with Barbies I shunned them in order to maintain my boyish status. I don’t know where I learned the rules but it was really hard for me to understand that I could be a Tom Boy who also enjoyed wearing a skirt. I’m glad we now have a generation of parents who embrace gender stereotypes (my husband assumed the car maintenance role in our marriage; I’ll be birthing the babies, right?) but also allow a generous healthy overlap.
PS – I also despise The Notebook. NOYK, I’m glad I’m not the only female.
July 10, 2009 at 11:22 am
Mehrsa
By the way, excellent post, Marc.
July 10, 2009 at 11:22 am
Bridget
Mehrsa,
I just read your comment. I love this line:
Tomboys are great, but who got to decide that it’s better for girls to like balls and guns than to like pink princess ponies?
AMEN. I don’t like when people define feminism for being “more like a man”… that’s exactly opposite. It’s embracing the ways of femininity that were established as inferior and making them less inferior – even if it’s pink ponies!
PS – for the record… I’m sooooo NOT a feminist. Not that I would be ashamed to be one, the Feminist would be ashamed to have me.
July 10, 2009 at 11:51 am
Carla
love this post. before i got married i always tried to “defy my role” as a domesticated woman and mother (if you will…) but now i find myself wanting to cook and keep house and have a baby more than ever. i think life has a way of changing us into what we need to be, even if we had preconceived notions beforehand.
July 10, 2009 at 12:56 pm
smylies
May I be hanged for saying this–but I think gender roles actually make for more peaceable relationships.
Marc, you already know this, but man, I keep laughing at the thought of you writing about sunny in your journal. What I wouldn’t give to get my grubby little hands on that list…
July 10, 2009 at 12:57 pm
smylies
Also–Jared. “Add guest blog on apron stage to your list” Very funny
July 10, 2009 at 1:36 pm
Emily
As I was sorting through some old papers a couple of months ago I found a copy of this very article that you wrote for the Pulse so many years ago, and I probably enjoyed it even more now than I did when you first wrote it. Of course I saved it and, thinking that you may have forgotten it, I had grand plans of surprising you with it sometime in the future, preferably at a public gathering. Looks like I’ll have to come up with a new idea.
When we found out that we would be having our first girl I was thrilled. But by the time we were in our car driving home a distinct feeling of anxiety had arisen, not at the reality of bringing a child into the world, but of all the pink that would, at least is some part, be unavoidable. As time has passed, and we have been graced by another girl, I have come to enjoy pink (in moderation) and have realized that my lifelong disdain for it was very likely a result of always identifying myself as a tomboy of sorts, and since pink was the ‘girliest’ of all colors, it had to be shunned. As you and others have written, it has been liberating coming into who I really am as a person, with the help of time, marriage, and kids. Now I just need to remember to allow the same evolution for my daughters.
In theory I know that I should be just as pleased whether my oldest is pretending to be a pirate or a princess, a ballerina or a doctor. But in truth it does make me really pleased when she chooses the pirate or the doctor. Clearly, I still have a ways to go, but it’s nice to think about these things critically and evaluate the messages that I’m sending to my daughters.
Thanks Marc, nicely done.
July 10, 2009 at 2:04 pm
Marc
Jared–
and you can add “I use emoticons” to yours.
I agree with you and your fine line–in fact my message feels like a recycled version of your pink puppy story (I still think you were still right to destroy it–I’ve seen the puppy and its evil powers are now severely limited). I also wonder, hands-on or -off, how much difference I’ll actually be able to make in this area.
July 10, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Marc
wdt,
I think your thoughts about isolation, rejection, and inner turmoil, and I think that’s why I made the list in the first place. I firmly believe that preferences/personalities need to be defended, but I hope I’m learning that they don’t need to be coached or interfered with.
Ultimately, is it possible to create a safe space for “sissies?” (And you’re right, it’s much harder to be a “sissy” than a “tomboy.”) My kids will be teased for a number of things, I’m sure–to what extent is that part of growing up? I’d like to hope as little as possible. But as an adult I still tease my friends for their personalities …
July 10, 2009 at 2:27 pm
Marc
Bridget and Mehrsa–
I agree that feminism (if you want to call it that) should re-label typically feminine pursuits as equivalent to typically masculine pursuits.
But I also think that only scratches the surface–there so many voices out there telling boys and girls how they should be. I think feminism needs to address those voices and what they’re saying. But I guess I don’t need to address my children, just teach them how to analyze those voices.
Since Harper is gifted, she’s already become adept at doing this. She’s did a deconstructive post-feminist critique of the kitchen she was given. She puts on an apron ironically when she plays with it and pretends to cook McDonald’s hamburgers into live cows. We’re so proud.
July 10, 2009 at 3:43 pm
james
Marc,
This is a nice little piece. I was going to write earlier about how gender-bending for boys and girls is different, but somebody beat me to it, so I will just add that I have discovered a peculiar and new phenomenon in our (religious and social) culture that I will entitle “fear of the gay son.” When I was growing up, my love for broadway shows and teddy bears did not indicate anything to my parents, as far as I know, and even though I had a similar list to yours, nobody ever really accused me of homosexuality. Yet because homosexuality is a permanent fixture of mainstream culture, as it perhaps should be, we have become hypersensitive to the “signs” of gayness, and the fear is the subtext behind our irrational double standard: little girls can be masculine, but little boys cannot be feminine. (“My daughter loves to play in the dirt!” vs. “My boy loves to do pirouettes to ‘West Side Story’!”).
What results is a tension that manifests itself in weird ways, especially in a religious culture, although I would argue that even the most progressive and secular parents fear that their child will be gay. Vonnegut claimed that the best way to disappoint your parents, by the way, is to declare that you are going to be an artist or that you are gay. Think of a dinner date in which another young family comes over to your house and sees your son playing house with Barbies. What will they think? Is my son labelled gay before he had a chance to even know sexuality? At one point, an effeminite boy was called a “mama’s boy” or “French” (see Shakespeare on this), but now we have him labelled as a sexuality identity just because the visible signs of homosexuality have become a mainstream part of our cultural discourse.
Would I have made a career of studying poetry had these labels been stronger in the 80s? Would I have donned a pink bodysuit and sailor hat to play a part in my high school production of “Carousel”? It seems to me that the fear of the gay son is a new and unfortunate phenomenon mostly because my parents’ generation never thought of homosexuality as an option, which allowed me to enjoy poetry, dancing, and flamboyance without the cultural baggage.
This response is totally undeveloped, but the “fear of the gay son” in a politically correct, progressive religious community is one of my fascinations. Nobody wants to talk about it, but it always lurks on the fringes of any of these discussions.
July 10, 2009 at 4:24 pm
Holly
First of all, Paul Simon is one of the greatest singer/songerwriters of our time.
Marc, I love this post. Love it. I love gender and all its nuances. I’m fascinated by the stereotypes, and I’m fascinated by those individuals that make up the edges of the bell curve. Just prior to reading this post, I was getting my oil changed – with kids in tow. You know how they are at Jiffy Lube: “You need a new air filter. You need an engine flush. You need new [insert whatever] fluid. You need to pay us a few hundred dollars.” Today they told me my battery was about to die, and gave me a print out of their battery test. I had no idea what it meant. To buy or not to buy? I shrugged my shoulders, effectively pushing off that feminist voice protesting loudly in my ear, and started calling the men in my life for an answer. When I reached my brother (he didn’t know if I needed a new battery or if $89.99 was a good price) we both laughed as I said, “Well, thanks for helping me reinforce gender stereotypes.” I’ve always considered myself a feminist. I love pink, shopping, jewelry, and pedicures. I don’t like football, mowing the lawn, car maintenance, or taking out the garbage. Does that undermine the cause?
Mehrsa, I love this line: “It’s funny how marriage, children and life lets you just relax and just calmly sit in your gender the way you want it.” Six years ago, pre-marriage and pre-children, things looked different, more complicated. Today I’m rolling my eyes at myself, shaking my head that I’ve fallen into gender stereotypes. But I have a car battery in the back of my car that I fully expect my husband to successfully install when he comes home from a long day at the office. I’ll have dinner ready. And maybe tomorrow I’ll take up the cause of feminism – whatever that means these days – once again. But more likely, I’ll calmly sit in my gender and realize that whatever I’m doing, it’s working for me.
July 10, 2009 at 5:20 pm
Bridget
Marc, I agree on it scratching the surface. And “teaching them to analyze those voices”? Perfect line.
PS – I love the name Harper… I’m totally stealing this.
July 10, 2009 at 5:48 pm
Marc
James–
Interesting points. And I agree with your naming of the unspoken fear. But why, as wdt points out, does “it seem much more acceptable for a girl to be a tomboy than for a boy to be a sissy?” Certainly this plays out in adulthood, too, as being a lesbian is so much more accepted in society than being a gay man. But that doesn’t explain why. What is it that makes girls and women less pressure in being socially accepted than boys and men?
July 10, 2009 at 7:37 pm
james
I think the question answers itself. “Tomboy” vs. “Sissy.” The word choice says it all. As far the gay man vs. the lesbian, I don’t know how to answer that except by intuition, which suggests that the gay man is much more a sexual threat to society than the lesbian. Let the cultural critics explain why or just burn my effigy, but I would say that the difference is significant, and any reasons would be just guesses. Let Bruno start this conversation: but I think the Bruno movie speaks to our fear of the gay man in a way that a movie called “Sasha” about an outlandish lesbian never could.
Another reason could be sought through a history of public space: in Western Culture, the male is the public figure and the woman is the private, so a gay man is public and therefore a threat whereas the lesbian is private and secret. Who knows. I am treading on stormy waters here, especially in my profession, so I should stop openly hypothesizing, but these discussions have got to be had eventually, and I don’t hear anyone honestly having them.
July 10, 2009 at 8:22 pm
Traci
OK, I know I’ve already had my turn to comment but James caught me, I almost told a story of a friend whose son started standing on his tip toes when he was one. I noticed this and said he might take after his mother (she was a dancer). She told me not to say that in front of her husband, he was already acting a little nervous about the tip toes. This kid was one. It was kind of an offhanded comment that I’m sure wasn’t meant to be, I don’t know, homophobic toward her son but it did illustrate how silly we can be about that fear.
The really funny (not haha, but more you read my mind) thing is that I almost posted that initially and then thought “that’s something I probably shouldn’t talk about”
July 10, 2009 at 10:39 pm
margy
See this story: http://parenting.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/01/keeping-the-sex-of-a-toddler-secret/
Very interesting.
July 10, 2009 at 10:40 pm
margy
Oh, the article is about a Swedish couple raising their child as genderless.
July 10, 2009 at 10:45 pm
smylies
Ha Margy! I heard about that story but hadn’t read it yet. Man, I wonder if Pop is going to get in trouble in Kindergarten when she/he lets out the big secret. Grounded for weeks I’m sure.
July 10, 2009 at 11:37 pm
Marc
Margy–
Sweet! It’s great having kids, cause then you can do outlandish experiments on them. Can you even imagine the cruelty that kid is in for at school?
July 10, 2009 at 11:39 pm
Sunny
Marc,
I liked your post when I read it 7 years ago. And I like it even more now. Kind of like how I liked you when I met you 7 years ago. And I like you even more now. I think it’s because you’re more manly now.
July 11, 2009 at 12:25 am
Marc
Holly–
Why deny the obvious, child?
(Although talking about me and Julio down by the schoolyard might be a better fit for the direction this strand has taken.)
July 12, 2009 at 2:57 pm
Shima
I thought the Lakers or liking things that everyone hates (and hating everything everyone loves) would appear somewhere on the list.
That was hilarious Marc. Bravo.
July 12, 2009 at 8:49 pm
Sara
Marc- great post. I’m Jared’s sister and I can remember seeing run/cry/throw/scream “like a girl” more than once. Emoticons are just the latest in his being in touch with his more feminine side.
I agree with Rebecca’s assertion that gender roles contribute to happiness. Though I think the expression of those “gender” roles is largely left up to us and our personal preferences, I can see the purpose behind them being planted in us. I think each sex has tendencies that promote the well-being of the other, and of the family. Working together, men and women are able to progress in ways that they are not able to alone- including the discovery and development of their individual roles.
I am all for each sex exploring and developing proficiency in things generally reserved for the opposite sex. I love the confidence and physical stamina that athletics build in girls; I love boys who can contribute to cooking and cleaning.
I too have seen my husband I I progress in our “roles”. I love building something with my boys and girls (ok, does Ikea furniture count?) I love that, after 10 years of marriage, I can go to my husband with feeling and emotions once shared only with girlfriends and he really gets is. There are many such example. And, there are some things that remain strictly my domain- if my husband had to raise children alone they would eat mostly cereal and toast and wear whatever they wanted to church. And some things are strictly his- taking out the garbage offends my feminine senses
Parents and society play a huge role in shaping gender and identity. In my opinion, boys suffer more in this area than girls do. The ideas that “boys don’t cry” and boys don’t play dress up/house or say how they are feeling about things are introduced very early in life and really hammered in. Boys are taught that to “be like a girl” in any way (being scared, running, throwing, crying, etc) is bad and wrong. I think boys are, in many ways, more naturally sensitive than girls, and that it is stripped away as they get older.
Lots to think about…thanks Marc!
July 13, 2009 at 9:44 am
lisapiorczynski
Marc,
I’m so bummed to only be reading this today. Great discussion going on here.
Re: Tomboy vs. Sissy
I think that it has been considered fine to be a tomboy b/c it was and still is (to a large extent) a man’s world. If we lived in a matriarchal society, I think it’d be fine for boys to want to emulate the dominating gender.
Re: Parents fears
One of my nephews declared that pink was his favorite color, much to the horror of his father. It made me so angry that he sat down and told him, “Pink is for girls. You are not a girl. Red can be your favorite color.” When I brought Boyfriend 7.0 to meet the family, I requested that he wear a pink shirt. Which he did.
July 15, 2009 at 12:33 pm
Dan
Marc,
The very fact that I am commenting on a blog named the apron stage might put all this into question but for old spit bubbles I’ll make an effort.
1. I cannot bear to sit through even one episode of Gilmore girls
2. The Twilight movie didn’t keep me on the edge of my seat
3. I will play basketball until I can hardly move but would rather go bare foot than wear shoes that hurt.
4. I cannot comfortably watch a TV show until after I have checked all other channels
5. Coming home from a long camping trip the first thing I want to do is clean my truck.
It is not surprising that children are much less concerned with whether or not their actions are appropriately expressing their sexual orientations.
July 18, 2009 at 7:02 pm
Marriage and gender roles | Times & Seasons, An Onymous Mormon Blog
[...] week, Marc Wilson wrote an interesting piece on gender roles where he noted that for him at least, “marriage has eliminated some of the [...]
August 21, 2009 at 3:18 pm
Jane
Marc, I’m just now reading this blog entry — about a month after you posted it. I love it … and Sunny’s response. I can’t wait to check you out when we get back to school in a few weeks to see if you’re color coordinating your clothes! Hope you’re enjoying the last bits of summer. See you soon. Hi to Sunny & Harper. Jane